Wagner edition.
This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.
How do I get into classical?
This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:
pastebin.com
Previously, on /classical/:
Tristan und Isolde
More like wanker
Hear me out: a Wagner(ian) opera, but it's a love/war story about Vampires.
there's literally Der Vampyr by Heinrich Marschner. a German Romantic composer in between von Weber and Wagner. The overture is really good.
youtube.com
1924 Fassung musikalisch und textlich neu eingerichtet von Hans Pfitzner.
kek, thanks Hans.
Brahms wrote five symphonies. His first (and best) was the Serenade Nº1 In D Major Op 11
So it actually exists, wow. Thank you very much.
Best recording of Händel's Messias?
I also need a good recording of Händel's Dixit Dominus
There's like a thousand of each lol. For Messiah I recommend Richter's, however his is a bit idiosyncratic in that it's a weightier, somber reading compared to others, so amazing as it is, it might not be the most faithful reading. For those, pick one of Shaw, Solti, or Colin Davis. For HIP, I'd go with Marriner.
Richter
youtube.com
Shaw
youtube.com
Solti
youtube.com
As for Dixit Dominus, can't go wrong with any of Marcus Creed's recordings, this one included.
youtube.com
Minkowski is great too
youtube.com
both of those recordings contain other works too btw
Also, not that I mind helping or recommending or talking about recordings, it's one of my favorite things to do in this general, but you should be starting to get to the point where you know how to discover and decide on recordings on your own by now. Search it on Amazon, look at the top handful of results, read the reviews, note if people recommend any other names in those reviews, perhaps Google '[piece name] [conductor] review' and do the same thing for reviews on classical sites, etc., in addition to building a mental repository of conductors/performers you like and dislike, and being able to recognize if a recording is likely to be up your alley or not, mostly by identifying if a release is traditional or HIP, HIP-adjacent or ultra-dry-HIP, etc.
the Schönberg arrangement of the Brahms piano quintet No. 1 for orchestra. for me it is the inofficial symphony no. 5 of Brahms.
youtube.com
char limit
Anyway, enjoy! Handel is amazing. Messiah is the kind of work you will continue to return to and enjoy for the rest of your life and pass on to your children and your children's children.
Can't go wrong with any of those of Messiah recordings, and there's even more great ones but those are, IMO, the best, each with a distinctive style the one movement sample should make readily apparent.
now playing (recording contains op. 116-119)
start of Brahms: 3 Intermezzi, Op. 117
youtube.com
youtube.com
Fantastic set of Brahms' late piano pieces. Angelich's approach is slow, moody, introverted, and contemplative, the opposite of the usual heroic or classical interpretations (eg Katchen and Kempff, respectively). Or as one reviewer eloquently puts it
The debate on how to perform these inexhaustible pieces could go on for ever. No performance can embrace everything that is in this music but it should be clear by now that anyone seeking a version in fine modern sound will find in Angelich a consistent and powerful interpreter. By emphasizing the bleak, tragic aspects of the music he causes it to look forward towards Mahler rather backwards towards Schubert. A distinctive achievement.
Well said. Should this be your only set for these pieces? No. But definitely one to have around, one I expect I'll be revisiting for a long, long time. Highly recommended.
Christopher Howell* is the reviewer. Rude to not cite the source and give credit, my bad.
r8/10 my evening listening program :3
>>/rym/
Endless melody
Who but Wagner would've come up with such an idea???
W.
Master of the pointless and meandering weedle weedle with no payoff
Such insolence
Cry about it wanker
Since sound wave is a naturally occurring phenomena in the universe then chances are that the alien life if there exist any, could possess an analogous organ to the human ear, imagine what would happen if we manage to make contact with the aliens in due time, just what will we show them? A bunch of naked feminists on the streets shouting "feel the nipple" or a furry rally passing through the streets of moscow or a bunch of angry bigotted chuds fighting meaningless battles online? How will we introduce them to our culture?
We will show the aliens true "Human Excellence". Our mastery of art and music. We will show them "Wagner".
This is it. The end. The peak. The Finale.
kill yourself
A bunch of naked feminists on the streets shouting "feel the nipple"
Wagner is for closeted homosexuals
like the symbolist poets
this thread's a larp, right?
All the world's a stage and all the people are LARPers
sorry. I don't speak Hebrew.
I'd like baroque period music more if the composers of the time weren't so obsessed with forcing singers to perform unflattering trills and horrendous malismas
wagnuh...
i wrote another symphony wagnuh...
Classical
Wagner
has anyone here read Sechter's harmony textbook?
Then listen to instrumental music, which is inherently superior in all respects and all periods.
Wagner is for repressed homosexual pseudonazis LARPing as christians*
anyone who disagrees with me is gay.
ok.
No, just wagnerites
anyone who disagrees with me is a jew.
ok.
Franz Schrecker
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
You should post this on Anon Babble. The people there would find it funny.
Apparently Wagner wrote an extensive critique of Brahms 1st symphony. I don't expect much beyond partisanship, but has anyone here read it to confirm if it's worth reading or not?
I've read it
Is it any good, or at least interesting?
Weirdest shit I've ever read in my life. 120 pages of the sentence "Wie kann er Symphonie! Als kann ich nicht?? Bose!" over and over again
do they like bruckner?
No, they like family-guy-tier humour like
*in my best german accent* i like richahd vagner
read it yourself
That Programme-music, on which "we" looked with timid glances from the corner of our eye, had imported so much novelty in harmonisation, theatrical and landscape effects, nay, historical painting; and had worked it all out with such striking brilliance, in power of an uncommonly virtuosic art of instrumenting, that to continue in the earlier style of Classic Symphony one lacked alas! the Beethoven who would have known how to make the best of it. "We" held our tongues. When at last we took heart to open our symphonic mouth again, just to show what still was in us, we found we had grown so turgid and wearisome that there was nothing for it but to deck ourselves with fallen feathers from the Programme petrel. In our symphonies, and that sort of thing, all now goes world-distraught and catastrophic; we are gloomy and grim, then mettlesome and daring; we yearn for the fulfilment of youthful dreams; dæmonic obstacles encompass us; we brood, we even rave: and then the world-ache's tooth is drawn; we laugh, and humorously shew the world its gaping gum; brisk, sturdy, blunt, Hungarian or Scotch; -alas! to others dreary. To be serious: we cannot believe that a happy future has been secured to instrumental music by the creations of its latest masters; above all, it must be bad for us to recklessly tack on these works to the legacy of Beethoven, in view of the utter un-Beethovenism which we ought, on the contrary, to be taught to discern in them-a lesson that should not come so very hard in the matter of kinship to the Beethovenian spirit, in spite of all the Beethovenian themes we here meet once again; though in the matter of form it could scarcely be easy to the pupils of our Conservatoires, as under the rubric of "Æsthetic Forms" they are giving nothing but a list of different composers' names, and left to form a judgment for themselves without further comparison.
The said symphonic compositions of our newest school-let us call it the Romantic-classical-are distinguished from the wild-stock of our so-called Programme-music not only by the regretted absence of a programme, but in especial by a certain clammy cast of melody which its creators have transplanted from their heretofore retiring "Chamber-music." To the "Chamber," in fact, one had withdrawn. Alas! not to the homely room where Beethoven once poured into the ears of few and breathless friends all that Unutterable he kept for understanding here alone, instead of in the ample hall-space where he spoke in none but plastic masses to the Folk, to all mankind: in this hallowed "chamber" silence long had reigned; for one now must hear the master's so-called "last" Quartets and Sonatas either badly, as men played them, or not at all-till the way at last was shewn by certain outlawed renegades, and one learnt what that chamber-music really said. No, those had already moved their chamber to the concert-hall: what had previously been dressed as Quintets and the like, was now served up as Symphony: little chips of melody, like an infusion of hay and old tea-leaves, with nothing to tell you what you are swallowing but the label "Best"; and all for the acquired taste of World-ache.-On the whole, however, the newer tendency to the eccentric, the requiring-a-programme, retained the upper hand. With fine discernment Mendelssohn had gone to Nature for his subjects, and executed them as a kind of landscape epic: he had travelled much, and brought home many a thing that others could not lightly come by. But the latest phase, is to take the cabinet-pictures of our local Exhibitions and set them to music straightway; enabling one to seize those quaint instrumental effects which are now at everyone's command, disguise embezzled melodies in harmonisations that are a constant surprise, and play the outcome to the world as Plastic music.
The results of our survey may be summed up as follows:-
Pure Instrumental-music, no longer content with the legalised form of the Classical Symphonic Movement, sought to extend her powers in every respect, and found them easily increased by poet's fancies; the reactionary party was unable to fill that Classic form with life, and saw itself compelled to borrow for it from the wholly alien, thereby distorting it. Whilst the first direction led to the winning of new aptitudes, and the second merely exposed ineptitudes, it became evident that the further evaluation of those aptitudes was only to be saved from boundless follies, threatening serious damage to the spirit of Music, by openly and undisguisedly turning that line itself towards the Drama. What there remained unutterable, could here be spoken definitely and plainly, and thereby "Opera" redeemed withal from the curse of her unnatural descent. And it is here, in what we may call for short the "Musical Drama," that we reach sure ground for calmly reckoning the application of Music's new-won faculties to the evolution of noble, inexhaustible artistic forms.
now playing
start of Weinberg: Suite for Orchestra
youtube.com
start of Weinberg: Symphony No. 17, Op. 137 "Memory"
youtube.com
youtube.com
one community reviewer described this (derisively) as "warmed over Shosty."
Wie kann er Symphonie! Als kann ich nicht?? Bose!
Weinberg
Changes in Soviet cultural policy in the postwar led to increased repression against minority groups, including Jews. This led to the murder of Weinberg's father-in-law on the orders of Stalin in 1948.
D'ya reckon Stalin liked Wagner?
wagner here getting paid by the word
Would you say Prokofiev is closer to Bartók than to Hindemith? Would you say he's closer to Scriabin than to Rachmaninoff?
Wagner the musician >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wagner the anything else
closer to Bartok and Rach.
Teh
le epic win lol xD
Wagner should only be remembered as a name we use to refer to a body of music and nothing else. We should forget he existed as a human and not just as a placeholder for the music.
Bartók and Rachmaninoff are nowhere near eachother though
Ring cycle is a good adaptation of the traditional German folklore. Tolkien stole from him, well I suppose they both stole from the same people, but Wagner at least has an excuse of being German.
Ring cycle is a good adaptation of the traditional German folklore.
Tolkien stole from him
Both statements are grossly inaccurate
Wagner's essays are just streams of consciousness that he published for money. His compositions on the other hand are where real substance and craftsmanship can be found.
Yes, and that is the sole reason the name Wagner doesn't deserve to be completely forgotten. But he had literally fuckall else going on for him. Shit writer, shit thinker, shit fashion icon, shit man, shit german, shit friend, shit human being.
but God-tier musician.
Definitely top 20
No, it's well known that Tolkien stole from Wagner. If you look at the medieval sources there's really no parallel for many features in Tolkien's story, which were first created by Wagner, and we know that C.S. Lewis, an obsessive Wagnerian, got Tolkien to study the libretto of Walkure with him in preparations for a prose translation which never eventuated. This was before Tolkien wrote LoTR. People like to say 'they were inspired by the same sources', but it's just a cope, and a very weak one at that, and I doubt whether these people actually know anything about these sources. I mean, come on, even the idea of using myth as a portrayal of industrial evils in the modern world is taken from Wagner.
He stole far more from the Eddas, the Kalevala, the Ulster Cycle, Beowulf, and fucking William Morris individually than he ever did from Wagner. You can't make shit like this up on the internet, my guy.
Tolkien always vehemently denied any connection between his Lord of the Rings and Wagner's Ring Cycle. He once said: 'Both rings were round, and there the resemblance ceased'.
It's well known that Friedrich Hebbel stole from Wagner.
Yes anon, we all know Tolkien was greatly influenced by many sources via philology and his interest in the emergent fantasy literature of the late 19th century. That doesn't discredit the fact that he was influenced by Wagner, even despite himself. I honestly don't know why Tolkienites get so worked up about Wagner being an influence. They'll sometimes outright accept his plagiarism of Finnish, but Wagner's name rustles their jimmies. Is it because of Wagner's political associations? I don't know. But the evidence is there and just saying 'you're making shit up' is a cope.
Classic anxiety of influence.
No, it's well known that Sturluson stole from Wagner.
I don't give a fuck about Tolkien's trash fantasy, but Wagnerites trying to credit Wagner with the invention of everything from skirts to the bidet is cringey and irritating
That doesn't discredit the fact that he was influenced by Wagner
No evidence presented other than your own schizo conjectures. Tell me more about how Wagner invented the radio.
This would be funny if Tolkien hadn't lived after Wagner. A very childish way of repeating the lame cliche 'they were inspired by the same sources'.
No, it's well known that anonymous mediaeval scribes stole from Wagner.
Anyone know any slow performances of Mendelssohn's 3rd and 4th symphonies? Or are they just not ever played that way?
Klemperer
Why would you want them played badly? Is that you, Winters?
You seem like one of those fruitloops that hate Wagner that Larry David made fun of. I'm not a Wagnerite, and, quite simply, I'm only claiming that Wagner had an influence on Tolkien. Not that he is responsible for Tolkien's vision, not that his influence was enormous, not that Wagner was the messiah of modern culture and influenced everything. So why are you getting so worked up? A couple of posts ago you went on a seething rant about how worthless everything associated with Wagner is aside from his music. Like, jeez man, calm down and stop being so personally offended by a dead composer.
Firstly, the all powerful ring is Wagner's invention. There is no ring in the medieval sources of such power, and especially that has such centrality to a plot. In the Volsunga Saga the ring is cursed but otherwise insignificant. Wagner hinges the entire plot on this all powerful ring being created by the embodiment of evil in the story, him losing it, his machinations in attempting to get it back which would result in the victory of evil, then the restoration of the ring to its source as the only means of destroying it. Furthermore there are the modern-industrial associations around this ring that, obviously, Wagner was the first to do. Or do you also think medieval sagas had mythological reflections of modernity? The theme of the 'lord of the ring as the slave of the ring' is condensed in such a fashion in the character of Alberich that Tolkien likely benefited from. There are quite a few other resemblances, but these are at least the undeniable elements of influence.
No, it's well known that the Yamnaya peoples stole from Wagner.
Mindbroken.
I say “libretto” in order to indicate exactly its literary quality in relation to genuine poetry, such as you find in Wagner, in Wilde (Salome), in Büchner.
Mindbroken.
the ring cycle libretto is honestly embarrassing even by 1870s germany standards
Where's the Indo-European myth about an all-powerful ring?
In my asshole, come and get it
Please stop
Please continue
kill yourself
There's really no poetry in the entirety of operatic literature quite so beautiful as these two lines from Wotan's farewell:
Der Augen leuchtendes Paar,
das oft ich lächelnd gekos't,
It is, by all measures, beautiful poetry, and even functions as metrically regular if you're not a fan of stabreim, as Brahms and Hanslick famously weren't.
that's shit
bored so let's finally listen through the Sony Bernstein Tchaikovsky cycle
youtube.com
forgot album cover
Wagnertrannies have bad taste in literature; whodathunkit
stop shitposting and being rude to others, please and thank you
You really, really like Paray's conducting, huh
adorno was right
get fucked
If you look at the medieval sources there's really no parallel for many features in Tolkien's story, which were first created by Wagner
like what?
wagner took the cursed ring from the eddas, and the plot to the ring cycle is largely ripped whole from the nibelungenlied
UHHHM DON'T YOU KNOW WAGNER INVENTED THE CONCEPT OF A POWERFUL RING???? HELLO?????
I will die on the hill that this is the most exciting Schumann 4th ever conducted, by quite a margin at that. And even though it's in mono the orchestra is captured expertly by Mercury's engineers. It's such a punchy recording.
youtube.com
Unfortunately the tape has some very obnoxious 15khz hum (which I fixed in my personal edit)
Wagner's greatness wasn't as a poet, but as a dramatist. He succeeded in making you believe his character were living, breathing three-dimensional beings, which is the aim of every dramatist.
Okay, he has some fine lines of poetry, but not many.
Wagnerians only care about music and visual art.
Literature is actually one of the lowest artforms and the only people who deny this fact are coping because they have a low spatial IQ.
I prefer
youtube.com
jk I'll give Paray's set a listen, thanks.
(which I fixed in my personal edit)
technologically based
I do gotta admit, these old Mercury album covers had SOVL
He succeeded in making you believe his character were living, breathing three-dimensional beings
nah, his only talent was writing good music
care about music and visual art.
do they though
album art was a lot better in the 50s-60s
nah, his only talent was writing good music
I just don't find that to be true. At least in the sphere of opera, which has pretty low standards for drama and theatre, he was exceptionally talented. And this is before the era of the intelligent operas of Hofmannsthal and Strauss. Where else will you find such a well delineated opera character as Wotan? Compare his three dimensionality with a Weber or Mozart character.
this doesn't say 'high art' or 'excitement' to you?
It has always seemed to be absurd to question Wagner's poetic gifts.
quick, bring out the couch
it's not to disparage wagner, originality in that sense is a very modern obsession anyway, i see the ring cycle as syncretic but its themes are quite different to those of the nibelungenlied
I don't care what you find unless it's a noose
See the later post explaining the similarities and responding to your predictable arguments.
Mann is shit.
originality in that sense is a very modern obsession anyway
Go to bed, Handel
See the later post where I vomit up conjectures and present them as documented fact
Still seething for no reason whatsoever.
SEETHE SEETHE SEETHE ANYONE WHO INSULTS PAPA WAGNER IS SEETHING ;_;
get a hold of yourself
now playing
start of Schubert: Piano Sonata No. 21 in B-Flat Major, D. 960
youtube.com
start of Schubert: 3 Klavierstücke, D. 946
youtube.com
start of Schubert: Moments musicaux, Op. 94, D. 780
youtube.com
youtube.com
Dina Ugorskaja counts as one of the most distinctive artists of the classical piano scene: Schubert and his ''heavenly lengths'' have accompanied me throughout my entire life. In this music, time occasionally seems to stand still: the state of lingering and resting seems to predominate above all others. We are overwhelmed with unbearable pain, with abysses of despair and hopelessness. How can it be that the confrontation with death so immediately present in this music dissolves all of a sudden into a floating, ethereal impermanence? Unexpected joy emerges, as if we were hearing the laughing of a child.
warning: first movement of the D.960 is a mammoth ~24 minutes. That said, can't go wrong with Ugorskaja!
Well, Kempff's version is 21 minutes long, and I consider that to be THE definitive interpretation, so 24 minutes can't be too bad
get a hold of yourself
That's what I said to you.
N-NO, U ;_;
as expected from a wagnertranny
Richter's famously slow performance is 40 seconds longer at 24:34, so it's comparable to that.
Hope not; Richter is bad
And yeah, Kempff's Schubert piano sonata set is probably the only one I've ever been fully satisfied with start-to-finish.
The first time I ever heard it, I was baffled by how unlistenable it was, especially considering how much praise it gets (seriously, read the YouTube comments on it). About two hours later, I got a Facebook message from some girl I didn't know informing me my then-girlfriend was cheating on me at the bar. Needless to say, I haven't listened to Richter's D.960 since lmao
read the YouTube comments
I don't hate myself THAT much
Quick, who's the biggest le wrong generation resentful bore: Pfitzner or Langgaard
You have to think of it in terms of percentages. 21 minutes to 24 minutes is approx. 14% slower tempo (assuming the difference is because of repeats or w/e), that's a massive difference.
assuming the difference isn't* because of repeats or w/e*, obviously
Langgaard, in spite of himself, wrote SOME interesting, innovative music
now you're moving a bit, you said parallels not similarities. there are no elves in the ring cycle (the word isn't even native to german, it's a loan from english), or islands in the west, or sympathetic dwarves, or volcanoes. the tarnhelm has no real analogue, wotan is hardly heroic, although wagner certainly identified with him. it's a stretch.
Question for the older-anons here: often when reading a review for a recording, the writer will make some mention of having worn out their previous vinyl copy of the release or another. How many listens is that approximately?
Anon, no offence, but are you retarded or just an ESL? 'Parallel' and 'similarity' can be used to mean exactly the same thing. And then you go on to point out parallels that DON'T exist, as an argument for why no parallels exist between the works. That's not an argument. All I'm saying is that Wagner influenced Tolkien in SOME ways, SOME parallels, not that their entire fictional worlds resemble each other.
Rachmaninoff
Disingenuous, goal-post-moving, passive-aggressive, hissy, resentful posts deserve no replies other than derision
five hours of orchestral Debussy :3 put this on, lay in bed, and enjoy your night
youtube.com
I wish I knew what my favourite recording of Printemps is, but sadly I've no info and the cover art is hard to reverse-google
well you've yet to tell me what the parallels are, but i'm starting to feel you're trolling or blinded by your wagner passion
Anon, no offence, but why are you such a fucking retard lmao lrn2english rofl kek stop being such a fag and agree with me rofl xD
-_-
Not sure what you want me to say here, anon.
No goal posts have ever been moved, and if you think they have you're embarrassingly stupid.
Then why didn't you read the post I told you? See I made the simple, harmless argument there.
I'm just sharing. Commiserate, maybe?
How did you obtain the recording?
Do you sassy fags really get this buthurt over being called retarded? I made an argument, you shouldn't be blinded to that because you were insulted. Use your brain.
Too many hurt emotions and too much effort put into avoiding the subject while still spamming wagner are not something trolls do. It's what trannies do.
See
see
I downloaded a bunch of them and listened to them until I found the one I liked the most, but forgot to download the back cover to see the credits. I'm now looking it up on yandex....
Apparently it's Boulez with the Cleveland Orchestra. I haven't listened to would you say it's much better?
You don't need to explain Wagner, you need to feel Wagner.
no u
feel deez nuts
Ah. I haven't heard Boulez's Debussy in a while but his is pretty distinctive. Give the one I posted a try, you'll either think "oh this is how Debussy is supposed to sound" or "meh Boulez's is more my style." Variety is the spice of life.
Wagner confirmed for braindead closeted-homosexual hedonists
Actually, sounds like you've already fine your ideal performance. Still, can't hurt to try others.
I'm still looking, though. I'm trying to extricate Boulez from anything that's not overtly modern like a few works by Stravinsky, the SVS boys and Messiaen. I'll give that Decca one a try
Very bizarre seething at the mere claim that Tolkien was influenced by Wagner.
so true sister
It feels rushed, but maybe that's because I've been listening to the Boulez for so long. Gonna have to study this one. What do you think of Khamma - Légende Dansée? I like the Warner Classics edition with James Conlon & Rotterdams Philharmonisch Orkest
I made many arguments, if you don't want to reply to them that's your problem.
I made many arguments
No, you wrote pure wishful thinking with no documented proof or backing
What do you think of Khamma - Légende Dansée
There's one on the Decca recording I posted too, I think performed by Chailly and the RCO. I just looked up and added the one you suggested though, I've heard a few recordings by Conlon and he's not bad.
youtube.com
Czerny's first symphony is pretty good
For me, it's Elgar.
Oh, and to answer your question, I'm not sure if I've ever even heard it before lol. It's at the very end of the 5 hour set and it didn't look familiar to me otherwise. Glad to know there's still Debussy stuff for me to listen to for the very first time!
Did I not name the similarities? And am I mistaken in claiming that those similarities have no precedent in the sources? I already pointed out that Tolkien engaged in a detailed study of Die Walkure with his obsessive Wagnerite friend C.S. Lewis, and I might add that there is also the record of the Inklings having discussions of Wotan's moral dilemma in relation to the ring. Demonstrating that Tolkien had a familiarity with Wagner. All of the evidence is there, and yet you have provided no response. Why would it not be obvious to think that the guy who created the story of the all-powerful, morally corrupting ring, influenced the guy who wrote the only other story about an all-powerful, morally corrupting ring? You're being absurdly recalcitrant.
well fair enough. i can't say it's impossible. but i'd still suggest the difference is marked in how the ring is portrayed - in wagner it's not the avarice for the ring itself that condemns but the abrogation of love, that the gods in their hubris believe was the sin of alberich alone. it's a far more complex work with strongly autobiographical themes. tolkien's books by contrast are markedly sexless and anhedonic, almost prudish
The word "Wagner" is so powerful and majestic that even the slightest mention of it should bring delight and jovialness. Wilhelm Richard Wagner is the "Bard of Bacchus", the first artist who created the purest form of art. It should be celebrated and worshipped. Even if the entire thread and every post says "Wagner", it is enough. It is justified and it is a great thread.
Of course, they're completely different works, but I just think it's obvious that Wagner exerted a little bit of an influence on him. As for the difference between how the rings are portrayed, I think in Wagner's version it's fair to say the avarice for the ring is simply another side of the abrogation of love, without which its obvious moral implications, in respect to capitalism, wouldn't exist. The abrogation of love is emphasised a great deal through it being the means by which Alberich forges the ring in the first scene, and that is distinct from Tolkien, but most of the later characters are caught up in its curse via, not an outright abrogation of love, but an avarice which very often leads to their abrogating love, and that is essentially the same in the original sources as well as in Tolkien's work.
let's see how Barenboim handles Schumann 3 and 4
youtube.com
youtube.com
very poorly
his earlier recording is better, he's really decrepit here.
I'll check out his earlier one then, thanks.
Huh, just discovered he's recorded the cycle three times, not two. He has a really early set with Chicago which I didn't know existed till now, and then the previous one with the Staatskapelle Berlin. Interesting.
nice album cover
Schumann 1
youtube.com