Rachmaninoff proofing concerto no.3 in Ivanovka edition
This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western classical tradition.
How do I get into classical?
This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:
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Classical music just isn't that good desu. I've grown up and I've moved on to listening to heavy metal. I hope some day you will to.
let's end the day with
<-----
start of Brahms: String Quintet No. 1 in F, Op. 88
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start of Brahms: String Quintet No. 2 in G, Op. 111
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Also check out this blurb, these Brahms quotes are amazing:
The two String Quintets are considered to be among Brahms' greatest chamber works. The first was a favorite of the composer, and he wrote to his publisher that, 'you'll never receive anything more beautiful from me.' The second was written when Brahms had all but retired. When he delivered the work to the publisher he wrote, 'with this note you can take leave of my music, because it is high time to stop.' The Nash Ensemble, having recently celebrated their 40th anniversary, are having something of a golden period. Their previous Onyx discs of Turnage and Mendelssohn received rave reviews.
People usually move from metal to classical not vice versa, imbecile.
Favorite recordings of Sibelius' 2nd symphony?
not /classical/, try instead
Fortunately it's Brabbins
well now he just sounds like a downie instead of a fart fetishist
Paul Paray!
Love this guy
Decent tunesmith, I'd say.
this
not really
I stopped listening to heavy metal when I was sixteen or seventeen, which seems appropriate.
There was something Messianic about Wagner himself, a degree of megalomania that approached actual lunacy…He was a short man, about 5 feet, 5 inches tall, but he radiated power, belief in himself, ruthlessness, genius. As a human being he was frightening. Amoral, hedonistic, selfish, virulently racist, arrogant, filled with gospels of the superman (the superman naturally being Wagner) and the superiority of the German race, he stands for all that is unpleasant in human character…but his egomania was supported by genius, and after him music was not the same.
He was a short man, about 5 feet, 5 inches tall
This instantly proves that the writer is full of shit, because 5 feet, 5 inches was an average height for males in the 19th century.
These are the best recordings of each Wagner opera (not counting the first three), right?
He was MUCH shorter than that.
When it comes to the Ring it gets more subjective, but the others are usually considered the best recordings.
a womanizer who said mean thing about the juice
The absolute madman, vat monster
Alright, enough memes. I need recordings for Wagner that are top level, true to his vision, and have audio quality that won't make me kill myself listening on IEMs.
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you can't have it all
solution: stop listening to music on IEMs
My favorite way to listen to music is definitely outdoors on a larger speaker or boombox, but when attending uni in the city I have to deal with listening to music on my phone 99% of the time.
Clearly you're the retard, since you don't understand the different between a process and a result.
And you're even stupider. Why would I "argue" against a strawman?
This Kertesz Brahms cycle is so good, it might be my new go-to for a while.
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You cannot take the following statement comma "It's hearty, wholesome, versatile and popular with everyone. Truly fantastic when garnished and ornamented, yet still delicious when eaten plain," and broadstroke it to bread as an absolute. Bread doesn't work like that, retard. The fact that you claim my argument is a strawman is more evidence that you don't know the basics of cooking.
then don’t complain if your vagner sounds like shit on your IEMs, because IEMs sound like shit.
it’s good, but it’s honestly nothing special.
it’s good, but it’s honestly nothing special.
Well we all know I get excited for variety for its own sake. Odds are I'll return to Klemperer's or whomever's next week falling in love all over again but hey that's part of the fun.
Wakey wakey delusional swarthy insomniac
iems dont sound like shit...i have the original tin t2s and they've been handling things fine. not as fine as my hd6xx, but that's another matter.
it's bedtime in india pajeet, go to sleep
LOL, hello /hpg/ immigrant
i'd take kertesz's brahms over klemperer at this point, klemperer is so irritatingly metronomic. i went the longest time disliking brahms 1 because i only ever listened to klemperer and his deliberately stiff tempi completely obscure the form of the entire piece.
i dont know what hpg is and dont care but claiming that iems sound like shit ignores what they're capable of
you're just some guy who browsed Anon Babbleheadphones for an hour 5 years ago and used the reddit consensus as gospel, i don't think you know what IEMs are "capable of" (not much).
I feel that. I can enjoy most 3rds and 4ths, about half of the 2nds I hear, but for me to enjoy a 1st it has to be really special. Of course loving them is another level entirely.
Any good long-form articles talking about the history and various schools of conducting, particularly those of the 20th century until now?
You have insomnia and schizophrenia, consult a psychiatrist.
all of a sudden it's no longer hpg but rather leddit that solicited my purchase of iems. no comma i bought these from the recommendation of a private forum. they function just fine in the right circumstances. for instance, when i go on long walks.
it's not even that, it's that klemperer gives a bad representation of the piece to a first time listener because his tempi do not help to clarify the form of the pieces he conducts. it's the same with his missa solemnis, which more or less sounds like a blur of incoherent random events to the uninitiated listener.
you are indian, i don't think there's anyone you can consult to fix that LOL
/hpg/ and Anon Babbleheadphones are basically the same thing so it's not really a contradiction.
i bought these from the recommendation of a private forum
what's the point of private forums anyways when they're just parroting reddit? roflmao
they function just fine in the right circumstances
i don't think whether or not them functioning is in dispute, more of whether or not they sound good, which they don't.
Ah. All I know is whether a recording works for me or not, if I feel like changing to something else when listening even if it's a piece I really love, rarely can I diagnose the 'why' of it. I'll keep that in mind next time I listen to Klemperer's.
IEMs don't sound like shit, they just won't hide recordings sounding like shit by being low precision.
My go-to has been Dorati LSO, how do you like that cycle
That is incorrect, however you can still consult a psychiatrist so I'll try to help save you (from us).
/hpg/ and Anon Babbleheadphones are basically the same thing so it's not really a contradiction.
a general on Anon Babble is the same thing as leddit...okay, you're actually retarded.
My go-to has been Dorati LSO, how do you like that cycle
Haven't heard it, which is odd because I generally quite like almost every recording I hear from Dorati but he's never been a conductor whose name I'll go actively seeking for a work or will convince me on its own to check it out without a specific, prior recommendation. So with that, I'll check it out, thanks!
sounds like you need to think a little bit more about the music you listen to instead of mindlessly consuming it.
they do in fact sound like shit and they will make good music sound like plastic dog ass because they make all music sound like plastic dog ass regardless of quality.
sorry pajeet, that isn't a coherent sentence. at this point, not even the best of ESL teachers can save you from your nonexistent command of the english language, nor the curry smell that radiates around you.
if they're saying the same things and posting the same memes, what's the difference?
That is still incorrect, however you can still consult a psychiatrist abd I'm trying to help save you (from us).
sorry pajeet, that still isn't a coherent sentence. at this point, not even the best of ESL teachers can save you from your nonexistent command of the english language, nor the curry smell that radiates around you.
Then just listen to Bohm's recordings (Tristan, Der Ring, Meistersinger) and call it a day.
you haven't heard about it because it's not good. the aspects of dorati's style that make him so good in haydn and beethoven make him sound like a fish out of water in brahms.
sounds like you need to think a little bit more about the music you listen to instead of mindlessly consuming it.
That's the job for people like you and other music critics ;)
Nah my real issue is, and this may sound silly, I'll almost always give the benefit-of-the-doubt to the recording and conductor. As in, instead of going "oh that's a bad decision," I'll default to "maybe I'm just not used to it" or "I'm just not in the mood for this piece right now," etc. Silly, I know, but it is what it is.
I listen exclusively to cheap chinkshit IEMs after having tried a myriad of headphones recommended by audiophiles because they simply sound better to my ears by comparison and don't give me a hair dent
Still incorrect and delusional, try consulting a psychiatrist.
please don't refer to me as a music critic, that's an insult worse than anything the loser pajeet could come up with.
I'll default to "maybe I'm just not used to it"
second guessing yourself in subordination to some random faggot with a stick is retarded. your first impression is nearly always correct; repeat listening only exists to elucidate why and reinforce that opinion or to very occasionally disprove it with greater insight.
i'm convinced now that everyone complaining about hair dents is just balding and doesn't realize it.
still indian and stinky, try staying in india forever so no one else has to smell you.
kek
That's good advice and perspective.
Still incorrect and delusional music critic, try consulting a psychiatrist.
the "i just don't get it" excuse is much more reasonably taken with pieces rather than recordings. the point of recordings is to make pieces sound immediately good, whereas pieces themselves are not always designed for immediate appeal. recordings are not high art.
he took the bait
LOL, so easily influenced. no wonder the british literally enslaved your entire race with no effort for centuries.
don't know the basics of cooking.
Still irrelevant. Bot tier posting.
You really need a psychiatrist if you think anyone not proficient in english is indian, swarthy mutt.
I used headphones for about two decades. Went through just about every highly rated one I could find. All gave me hair dents and within that decade my hair hasn't really changed much. I'm in my 30s now so I probably do have mild male pattern baldness but my hair is still about as full as it always was, so I don't think that's it.
what leads a fatty flyover magatard to worship brahms anyway
the "i just don't get it" excuse is much more reasonably taken with pieces rather than recordings. the point of recordings is to make pieces sound immediately good, whereas pieces themselves are not always designed for immediate appeal. recordings are not high art.
That's a good way of putting it, I'll keep it in mind from now on. Certainly far too much time wasted on trying and retrying recordings that are highly praised and critically acclaimed that don't click for me on first or even second listening.
I will be honest: I dont have an opinion on recordings, directing style or performances. I dont have that attention to detail or knowledge. I pick a composer or album that seems interesting, listen to all of it, and ponder if I like the music. If I listen to the same piece weeks or months later, I will no longer remember the previous one in such detail as to make a comparison. My routine is a couple or maybe three albums a day, some new and others from my collection.
no, it's just you, pajeet.
sounds like your hair was never really that full to begin with.
Certainly far too much time wasted on trying and retrying recordings that are highly praised and critically acclaimed that don't click for me on first or even second listening.
that's what i did with klemperer's boring ass brahms and i went literal years thinking that brahms wasn't for me until i heard actual good brahmsians. klemperer just sucks outside of the rare handful of pieces like mahler 2/das lied and the flying dutchman.
Whether or not you like the music *is* an opinion on the recording, especially if you like or dislike it the piece more when listening to a different performance.
Schumann's symphonies far surpass Brahms' symphonies
ironically shilling for schumann is really funny, the W poster should jump onto this bit.
This is true.
I remember from a conversation with Frau Schumann how she, for her part, evaluated the first movement [of the First Symphony]. She found little outstanding about the ideas of the first part of the Allegro; only with the so-called development in the second part was the music thrilling and significant. Moreover, in the second subject she discovered a reminiscence of Schumann’s Manfred Overture. She explained that when she expressed this to him one day, Brahms retorted with irritation: “Yes, I know, of course, that I have no individuality” [“Ja, ich weiss ja, dass ich keine Individualität habe.”]
Oh, how I wish this were even close to being true, to where it might be a debate. Schumann's symphonies are fine but I invariably always leave a little bit unsatisfied due to how good they ought to be versus their reality.
It's hearty, wholesome, versatile, and popular with everyone. Truly fantastic when garnished and ornamented, yet still delicious when eaten plain. Some people think it's boring, but they are only misinformed.
that statement is using bread in the most perfect setting. that setting was used to compare it with bach, but to suggest that bread in such a perfect state can be made with the specification of that standard every time is an idealistic and naive point of view. simply put, the process and the result cannot be separated in a comparison such as this with the parameters as they are.
Just compare the lackluster finale of his 3rd symphony, coming after the intense 3rd movement, with the cathartic finales of Schumann's 2nd symphony and 1st piano trio.
Brahms' slow movements in the first three symphonies are also more tedious than memorable or moving.
how good they ought to be
Why 'ought' they to be good? Wagner always said Schumann was bad at composing in larger forms.
W.
In the sense of the potential you can glean from listening to them + the heights he reaches in other forms. Yes, maybe he just wasn't that great at symphonies, but it's still disappointing.
I have heard the Brandenburg Concertos in perhaps more than 10 versions, they all sound the same to me, with the exception of one HIP version were the tempo is waaaay different. Im sure you all will nitpick some of them as "the worst", "the best", "a crime against humanity" and say that its obvious why. But I dont have that depth of... whatever it takes to make the judgement.
some random ass minuet and trio
intense
LOL
...
Fair enough.
Brahms was never able to write a truly triumphant finale, instead concluding in a placid continuation of the present mood (the 1st attempts to contrive tragedy in a minor key introduction, only to return to the major tonality of the previous movements).
i always thought that the finale of the second was one of the most blazingly joyful pieces of music ever written, but this random faggot on Anon Babble has finally convinced me that it's just a "placid continuation of the present mood" (of what, the menuet that sounds nothing like it?).
As long as the recording quality is good, most of the time I'm pretty similar to you, for example Richter's WTC is the only WTC I listen to, can't be bothered to listen to any other. But when it comes to my absolute favorites like Rach 2, 3 and maybe 4, or pieces I'm playing such as some of the Chopin's preludes, I have special favorites and I can clearly hear the minor differences and details, phrasing, dynamics etc.
Go see a psychiatrist swarthy mutt.
This, except I moved on to jazz.
hurwitz's greatest recordings ever series started out pretty decent with obscure and neglected repertoire but at this point it's just devolved into dave's faves 2.0. this is the how manyth time he's jerked off this shitty bernstein mozart recording again?
stay in india forever, loser pajeet.
If anything you should move on to electronic. All the people who would have been the modern great composers have been in that genre for decades.
not /classical/, try instead.
This series has some of the best recs, bet this recording is gold.
Stay in psych ward.
The problem is... that shit is gay. Like reallyyyyyy gay. I'll listen to classical because that's cool-- it makes you think, and it's very dramatic, and yeah that stuff's cool. And I'll listen to rock, that has the nice guitar riffs, and it gets your blood pumping, and it's all dirty and sexy, yeahhhhh. But electronic shit? Come on, that's for queers. Anyone that likes that garbage also probably likes cocks, that's all I'm saying.
LOL, certified ESL moment.
Please stay in psych ward insomniac, you presence is unwanted.
my dislike for homosexuals and zionists leave me at odds with hurwitz and his recommendations, especially that latter, where it is most common for him to promote people just like himself as he has done in pic rel.
Meds
and a good morning to you too saaaarrr
looks like you're propping it all up with volume but it's not actually full enough to support weight. no wonder you're complaining about hair dents.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the popular image of classical music listeners is old crusty boomers and effete gays.
Leonard Bernstein's performance of this Mass is the finest available. Proof comes from a very unexpected source. A major French classical music magazine conducted a blind listening test of every available performance of this Mass--and this recording was the unanimous choice of the jury. No one was more surprised than they were, but one minute of this blazing performance confirms that they were right. A superb disc. --David Hurwitz
Guess it can't hurt to give it another go later today.
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Stay in psych ward insomniac.
feels like a morning for Mahler 2
best Viola Concertos?
and a good morning to you too saaaarrr
ew, i'm not interested in this zoomer mutt's broccoli perm.
start of Walton: Concerto for Viola & Orchestra
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start of Bruch: Concerto for Violin & Viola with Orchestra in E Minor, Op. 88
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if you’re going to have a retarded zoomer mutt perm then you deserve to have a hair dent. get a normal person (and not the homeless crackhead outside the 7/11 haircut you just posted) haircut and your problems will cease.
never had it, never will. get a better haircut, broccoli boy.
dox yourself like a retarded zoomer!
you’re going to have to do better than that, broccoli boy.
your liberties, for your own sake, entreat upon you to not share any more personal biometrics than you already ahve
Is Jarvi pronounced 'Harvey' or with a hard J?
posting an actual neanderthal who never lost the soft spot in his head as a baby
yeah, you’ve lost the plot, balding broccoli boy. keep listening to plastic BAs and i’ll enjoy my full head of hair AND actual good sounding headphones.
stop bullying someone just looking for some advice to improve their life :(
keep listening to plastic BAs
My IEMs only use dynamic drivers, though.
AND actual good sounding headphones.
What headphones do you use, baldie?
Why the fuck would it be pronounced Harvey??
like the Hispanic Jesus or Jorge...
neither Jarvie is prounconouned as Yarvi
He's Estonian...
don’t be naive, he’s obviously a schizo who has a collection of pictures of zoomer eceleb streamers looking like the dysgenic freaks they are.
yeah, i’m sure your aliexpress DD shoved into a stock housing sounds real fucking good. everyone loves the sound of a razor sharp 6khz peak, huh?
What headphones do you use, baldie?
wouldn’t you like to know, broccoli boy? don’t you have an apex legends match to get to?
Yervie, actually.
who has a collection of pictures of zoomer eceleb
Those were just copy pasted results from Google images of "headphone hair dent"
everyone loves the sound of a razor sharp 6khz peak, huh?
Where's the peak?
wouldn’t you like to know, broccoli boy?
Yes, baldie. I'm genuinely interested. I want to know what your reference for great sound is.
now I'm really confused
Those were just copy pasted results from Google images of "headphone hair dent"
and you, in good faith, decided to post a picture of a proto-human caveman ape who has a malformed skull. yeah, i totally believe you.
Where's the peak?
your graph doesn’t have enough smoothing, add some more so that it just looks like a flat line from 20 to 20.
Yes, baldie. I'm genuinely interested
i’m interested in why you’re skipping your league of legends match to defend $0.20 aliexpress stock DDs.
Here it is measured on a 5128 with 0 smoothing
Again, where's the peak? I'm pretty sensitive to peaks in the 5k-6k range, it's why I sold my HD800S.
if you genuinely think an unsmoothed graph looks like that your brain has more smoothing than the tool you’re using.
the word naive was used in this thread less than an hour ago. it means you're adopting words evoked by me to use as your own.
pills time
Even with maximum smoothing, if there was a peak there, it would be obvious. I don't know why you don't want to tell me about your own audio equipment. You'll constantly berate others for their choices, but you won't put yours out there? I would love to try out your headphones to see if there as good as you say they are. I'm always willing to try something different.
That's just TJ 101, he will goal post shift and endlessly reply with insults even when he's wrong because he's insecure about his own tastes and opinions
You won't ever get a genuine answer from him, just give up
Even with maximum smoothing, if there was a peak there, it would be obvious.
not really, using smoothing to hide peaks is a tale as old as time, even jude does it when he needs to run damage control for a headfi sponsor.
picrel is a random graph from my archives that i made with my own IEC 711, note that the angles on it are sharp as hell. also note that this was a dampened as shit DD and even it has a 6khz peak; whatever IEM you’re posting either has an incredibly smoothened graph or has been so heavily dampened that it’s unable to muster any dynamic that’s not mf.
I don't know why you don't want to tell me about your own audio equipment.
i don’t know why don’t want to tell me about the fortnite game you missed to argue with me about how smooth your brain is.
I would love to try out your headphones to see if there as good as you say they are.
even if i told you, you wouldn’t be able to find them.
put your trip back on, pedophile kraut.
picrel is a random graph from my archives that i made with my own IEC 711, note that the angles on it are sharp as hell
That really doesn't look particularly sharper than the graphs I'm looking at with 0 smoothing. Maybe it's a bit more smoother on the micro level, but peaks don't get smoothed out significantly on this graph like that. It looks quite similar to yours, actually. Also, don't you mean 8k peak? I don't see peaking at 6k, but at around 7-8k
ever notice how drivers in front, beside and behind you dictate the speed of your automobile while driving on the highway? it's not something i like to do, driving on the highway or driving in general, but especially on the highway, since about 3 years ago my city started installing surveillance on and around the loop, and so basically comma what you just experienced without ever taking notice of it, is exactly the type of behavior experienced on the highway. i guess it shouldnt come as a surprise since im your superior but also it shouldn't be above my status for me to ask just what the similarities are between highways and the internet. i might find that they have much more in common than i had initially thought.
Beethoven's 6th is a three movement symphony with a rhapsodic 3rd movement. Beethoven being gimmicky and pretending it's 5 doesn't change that
That really doesn't look particularly sharper than the graphs I'm looking at with 0 smoothing
even the smooth lines on my graph, like the incline from 31hz-1khz are not entirely smooth, you can see jagged edges there because the pink noise file that’s used for measurements is, at the end of the day, randomized noise; it will create minor artifacts that don’t affect the result of the measurement but do make it extremely obvious if smoothing is being used.
Also, don't you mean 8k peak?
8khz peaks on IEC 711s are standardized coupler resonance relative to insertion depth, they don’t exist (unless the IEM itself has an 8khz peak in which case it would exacerbate it) in practice.
I don't see peaking at 6k
look at the peak after 4khz. this IEM is dampened as shit, so the higher peaks are suppressed by the inherent treble rolloff.
What HIP performance of Beethoven's symphonies is the closest to what it might have sounded like at the time of it being premiered?
pills time.
it’s a 4 movement symphony following the traditional symphonic layout (sonata allegro > slow movement > scherzo and trio > sonata-rondo finale) with the thunderstorm serving as an introduction to the finale. it’s really not that complicated.
try the Chailly/Gewandhaus cycle, assuming you also want quality
HIP doesn’t sound anything like actual historical performance and never will, so none of them.
neither HIP nor traditional, just redheaded stepchild performance practice that tries to satisfy everyone, and in doing so pleases no one.
Apparently the Paris Conservatoire/Schuricht recordings sound as close to Beethoven's time as it gets. But honestly it's imposdible to be sure.
Hogwood I really like
HIP doesn’t sound anything like actual historical performance and never will
Give a genuine reason
Yeah I don't care for it either but I imagine it's pretty close to how they would have been performed in Beethoven's day
that’s not what people mean when they talk about the paris conservatory orchestra. what they’re saying is that the paris conservatoire has the longest unbroken tradition of beethoven performance practice dating back to beethoven’s time, meaning that the performance practice itself was subject to modification per the tastes of trends and audiences in the 100 odd years between beethoven’s death and the schuricht recordings, but at the end of the day it is still stylistically closer to beethoven’s era than any HIP recording.
because replicating actual historical performance is a technical impossibility, and because HIP itself is less interested in historical accuracy and more interested in serving as a reaction against the full bodied, modern romantic orchestra. that’s why HIP orchestras still perform brahms and mahler even though that music was effectively written for the modern symphony orchestra.
and you imagine wrong.
In any case, it doesn't really look like my set has a peak in that region like the VR1 does, looks pretty smooth to me when I'm comparing the two. Maybe it's dampened, but it doesn't really sound dynamically limited at all to my ears, and I would like to think I'm fairly sensitive to that kind of thing.
brap
because replicating actual historical performance is a technical impossibility
why?
at the end of the day it is still stylistically closer to beethoven’s era than any HIP recording
Isn't that what I said? "As close as it gets"?
the VR1 was just a random example. here is another one that, on the other hand, is totally undampened, and is very readily apparent about it.
Maybe it's dampened, but it doesn't really sound dynamically limited at all to my ears, and I would like to think I'm fairly sensitive to that kind of thing.
not unless you have anything to compare it to, and the reality is that the vast majority of people don’t.
the most important aspects of performance practice that define regional style in an orchestra are not something you can find in a pedagogy text or in a performance manual, they were passed down from teacher to student and between members of the same orchestra to create a unique sound. in other words, true historical performance is essentially lost knowledge. even ignoring this though, HIPsters blatantly ignore entire facets of historical playing styles like portamenti, so they’re working with incomplete or faulty information even with the extant information we have in mind.
it’s definitely not “as close as it gets” in practice, they obviously did not use a modern full sized symphony orchestra in beethoven’s day.