Teutonic Spirit Edition
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This thread is for the discussion of classical music.
How do I get into classical?
This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:
pastebin.com
Making duplicate threads is against the rules, retard
In Meistersinger's harmonies, one hears the echoes of Bach's intricate counterpoint, as if the ghostly specter of the Baroque master had momentarily forsaken the organ in favor of the opera house.
Richard Wagner once said of Johann Sebastian Bach’s music: “That made me what I am. My unending melody is predestined in it.” In Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg, Wagner demonstrated to post-Tristan sceptics his mastery of traditional musical forms. Sonorous chorales, an overture which Wagner described as 'applied Bach', a fugally-inspired toccata, an unforgettable quintet and counterpoint worthy of Bach all feature in this magnificent score celebrating the marriage of inspiration and tradition.
The whole of Die Meistersinger— shaping itself before our very ears — is Wagner's answer to his critics, a song offered them to meet their specifications, filled with all the things they demanded and found wanting in his other work: diatonic structures, counterpoint, singable tunes, ensembles, folk dances worthy of Weber and chorales worthy of Bach.
Theres already a thread
you're a liar.
it's cringe and it was posted before the bump limit.
mods being retarded episode 768
yeah YouTube Music almost always uses the latest remastered version, unless it came out very recently then sometimes it'll have both. In any case, same cover as the one you posted, thanks.
Beethoven was a mediocrity whose only purpose was inspiring his superior successors. His music just lacks the metaphysical qualities found in Mozart, Bach, Wagner, Schoenberg and Ives, and, unlike Mahler, Haydn, and Handel, he doesn’t even approach them. I guess he’s more engaging than Brahms, but I’d even take a truly great melodist like Tchaikovsky over him.
Is there any reason to listen to any R. Strauss recording (non-operas) that wasn't conducted by Karajan or Kempe? Seems like no one else's really comes close. Previn's is alright, it never wow'd me.
Beethoven 9 beats every composer you mentioned besides Bach
Listen to fartwrangler
He's decent
Why does sisterposter hate him so much?
He's obviously a contrarian to an extent.
bait is supposed to be believable.
FPTMIU
What's the best recording of the Art Of Fugue?
I've been listening to Tatiana Nikolayeva's and Zhu Xiao-Mei's a lot lately, both stellar. There's also the one by the Keller Quartet if you want a string quartet version.
Missa Solemnis
meme or masterpiece?
Obv masterpiece
I am sick and tired of this balding christcuck being shilled here for no absolute reason at all. Its even worse then schoenberg cucks who spam their degenerate atonality and bring down the level and calibre of the thread. We must collectively rise up against this retardation and divide these threads into two groups. One for discussion of /Romanticism/ with the exception of two composers i.e. Beethoven and Vivaldi. The other group should be termed /Degeneracy/ and everything other then romanticism should be discussed in those thread (like atonality, reddit debates, baroque, harPISSchord, violin and other shit like that)
Stale pasta, not even remotely creative bait to begin with.
As a mathematician and statistician, I must say that the greatest (human) music pieces, whatever they might be, would probably not be too long. Whatever "level" of craft we assume, the longer it would be demanded, the more opportunities there would be for the fallible human to make some suboptimal choices.
Paul McCartney's Yesterday is probably a greater piece of music than Mass in B Minor, Eroica and the like
inb4 l-le art is abstract!
This is cope from people that got filtered by math in childhood, always has been.
The fact that AI is now algorithmically producing better art than 90% of real human beings has BTFO this superstition forever.
I’m sorry if that makes you feel bad but it’s just true. 90% of human beings cannot produce art of any quality or originality whatsoever and an algorithm fed machine has already been invented that can do their job better, this is not to say AI art is the greatest or that the 10% of human creativity isn’t better.
99% of people don't accomplish anything, even if they are technically skilled, smart, or creative. I'm sure there's some selection bias, but the only people I can have interesting conversations about music, literature, or history with are engineers.
In case you still not understand what he said regarding AI: The majority of people are talentless, soulless NPCs. Like you, AI is just a tool
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masterpiece
kill yourself immediately.
Vagner was a "christcuck" too
you're a tool.
romanticism is literally l.eddit incarnated
now playing
start of Honegger: Symphony No. 2 for Trumpet and Strings
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start of Honegger: Symphony No. 3 "Liturgique"
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Herbert von Karajan liked to think of himself as the great conductor of the German classical repertoire: Mozart, Beethoven, and Brahms. Perhaps out of insecurity, he recorded and recorded that music incessantly--there are four complete Beethoven symphony cycles, for instance. But he really was at his best in other things, and everyone agrees that these performances of Honegger symphonies are among his finest recordings. Part of their allure lies simply in the quality of the playing, for no one could deny that he cultivated a technical standard with the Berlin Philharmonic that was second to none. But he also seems to respond to the music's savagery, its melancholy, and ultimate message of hope. In short, the music really turned him on, and it'll do the same for you. --David Hurwitz
In sum, what of Karajan? Did he have a way of making everything sound as if it were experienced from the back seat of Mercedes limo?
That's funny.
Hurwitz
please excuse me while I stab my eyes out.
I just post whatever review excerpt/blurb there is on Amazon; Hurwitz aside, the recording is unanimously considered a reference recording for the work and a stupendous music album in general.
Mozart's concertos or Mozart's symphonies?
String quartets/quintets :p
That's a tough one though, probably... concertos, only because I've heard the symphonies so many times it's hard for me to enjoy them these days anymore, sadly.
It's hard for me to get bored of any mozart piece. I've probably heard Piano Concerto 20 a hundred times but I still adore it as one of my favorites
Tatiana Nikolayeva
She's one of the best Bach players in history, strange that I discovered her only two years ago. She's up there with Gould, imo.
Though for the Art of Fugue, I dislike piano performances because I find the texture/sonority too homogenous. String quartets do the work better justice, imo.
Beethoven doesn't write particularly well for choir. His works are notorious for being non-idiomatic for voices.
She's up there with Gould,
clever insult
Yeah she's a godsend.
>Supposedly at an International Bach Competition (which Shostakovich was adjudicating and from which he would return to the Soviet Union, inspired by Nikolayeva to write his monumental 24 Preludes & Fugues for her), the final phase of the competition consisted of playing one of the fugues from the Art of the Fugue. When the panel asked Nikolayeva which one she intended to play, she responded, "Which would you like?" Needless to say, she won.
And I feel you, string quartet versions, specifically performed by the Keller Quartet, Juilliard Quartet, and Delme Quartet, are my personal long-time favorite of it as well but lately I've come around on piano renditions. I wish there were more string quartet recordings! Preferably by at least one hyper-romantic, sentimental group performing the work as if it were written in the 19th century, but I get why it doesn't exist.
Still a masterpiece, one of the greatest achievements in music and all of mankind.
It's a pleb filter for sure.
Beethoven symphony 5 movement 2 is one of the best things Beethoven wrote.
What are some genuinely great /classical/ cover arts? I quite like some of the Living Stereo covers, Shaw's Mass in B Minor, Rubinstein's Mozart Piano Concerto 20 and Munch's Beethoven Ninth have very interesting looking covers which is a rarity in classical.
Post them
speaking of Art of Fugue string quartet recordings, just discovered another by the Cuarteto Casals. I don't have too much experience with them aside from listening to some of their Shostakovich the other day, which was quite good, so I have high hopes for this in case anyone else wants to check it out too:
start of playlist
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nta: Look them up.
now playing, another Karajan classic
start of Holst: The Planets, Op. 32
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Been forever since I've listened to this. Favorite recordings of it? It's always been my impression that this work is one of those warhorses where most recordings are solid, and it really comes down to one's personal flavor and preference of conductor and their vision, kinda like Scheherazade, so I'm curious if there are any standouts.
Is this suite genuinely good or a meme?
It's good. The 'meme' factor comes from the fact it's a good entry-level work, invariably resulting in newbies overrating it, which of course causes a backlash from regulars here. The work itself is very enjoyable, give it a try!
Who sucked at pleasing your personal tastes in form?
no, he was just objectively inept at manipulating form in an intelligent way, that's why he never did anything with it.
Or maybe you're just too retarded to enjoy them like everybody else.
or maybe everyone else is retarded for enjoying bad music.
Musical analysis is only fundamental to musicology, nothing else.
wrong, musical theory and analysis is fundamental to every field of music practice including but not limited to musicology. you don't know what musicology is.
You said I should listen to pop where every song in an album might be in a different unrelated keys
if you don't have perfect pitch (and most people don't), you won't even be able to tell the difference.
where key obviously matters in terms of relationship between themes and movements
that applies to literally every piece of tonal music in existence. by this logic, any piece of music that transposes its motifs to a different key or even mode (which is basically every piece of music with a development section) is somehow magically losing connection between both appearances of the motif, which is comical to imagine.
Many themes from the first movement of pathetique are alluding to the second movement, even the last movement.
still waiting for proof of this.
There are connections which are evident, not sure how you can claim to understand form and hear no pattern whatsoever in Pathetique,
motivic interconnection to each is still unrelated to form, btw
I linked the evidence where an author is analyzing the piece.
you claimed to understand form, so i'm waiting for your formal analysis of the work, not someone else's that you don't understand.
but I can't go into detail of everything I like, nor do I see the point of analyzing everything
not my problem.
So there is much evidence
then post it. i'll wait. (1/2)
All of which wre objective within a context. There are no definitive rules and truths in music
yes, music theory operates on the presumption that we're all operating in good faith and can mutually agree on a canon of composers and seeks to understand what those composers had in common. you, of course, are a third world ESL concern troll, so this doesn't apply to you.
Your posts got deleted 2 threads in a row though.
so exactly like yours? LOL, nice tacit admission that you're ban evading.
Blah blah empty words&more cope.
but enough about you. still waiting on that "much evidence", any day now. (2/2)
put your trip back on, pedophile kraut.
it may have to do with the fact that he sounds like dogshit, AGP tranime pedophile sister.
mindboggling genius
beethoven's music is full of awkward, unidiomatic passages for every instrument, even piano despite being his own instrument. the missa solemnis is only upholding a trend in that regard.
NytnajAny good bolero recommendations?
Wagner officially ranked the top three composers as:
1. Bach
2. Beethoven
3. Wagner
And in that order. He claimed that Mozart died too early to early to do anything more than hint at his own potential. What do we think of his judgement?
great question sister
Do you prefer slow movements be in sonata form or ternary form?
That's also one of those pieces where just about everyone does a good job. Here's a few:
Karajan
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Munch
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Dutoit
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Ozawa
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One of these will satisfy, if not all. Enjoy!
speaking of Living Stereo covers
<-----
The opening always makes me want to cry, it's just so majestic and beautiful. The Benedictus too. I find the other movements harder to appreciate, but still, definitely a masterpiece.
disgusting Mozart underrater
label is less important than execution.
Its more than just a label though.
Thanks mate.
obviously, but a well executed form will always be better than a poorly executed one, regardless of design. sonata form and ternary form are not inherently better than one or the other, it all boils down to what the material demands.
What do we think of his judgement?
Retarded, like everything Wagner did/said.
sonata form and ternary form are not inherently better than one or the other,
sonata sounds sexier, so it has that going for it
they both sound like obtuse word salad without context, so i don't see your point.
Interjecting with a bit of humor; apparently I was unsuccessful.
Beethoven's Ninth is such a perfect masterpiece, genuinely can't get why you'd consider the previous ones better. They're all good, but the Ninth just trumps them.
genuinely can't get why you'd consider the previous ones better.
Which is why no one seriously does.
If it's perfect why does it have so many flaws?
define "perfect"
I dont see any
funnily enough, i think it's the opposite; the ninth is a ridiculously idiosyncratic and at times outright strange work, but it's also the only symphony written in the late style, and as such contains a total mastery of compositional technique unlike any other symphony before or after it.
I love its strangeness of it, makes it very exciting.
The finale.
i'm not saying the strangeness is a bad thing, but it also makes it pretty easy to understand why people have been complaining about it for the last 200 years.
le choral music is bad meme
no thank you
I listened to it with a friend who normally has a lot of trouble listening to longform works, even he enjoyed every second and was enthralled. No clue what type of person would complain about it.
The 6th symphony is better. As is the "Eroica" symphony, and the slow movement in the 5th makes it instantly better than the 9th.
I'm sorry, but the choral writing just isn't very solid, and let's not forget that "Waldstein" alone is a sonata greater than any of the symphonies.
chatGPT tier post
I would appreciate it if you kept your trolling elsewhere, didn't you see the sign? Please and thank you.
the 9th is his worst symphony.
yeah, too bad schnittke couldn't finish it, but his ninth really is his weakest symphony.
Is Brahms better than Beethoven?
his fourth symphony is better than all Beethoven symphonies
he is the best chamber music composer of all time
his opuses 116, 117, 118 and 119 are better than Beethoven's piano sonatas
he never composed a bad opera, unlike Beethoven
I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto {the Third Piano Concerto} much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant!
I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies—these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission—his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works.
Hardly controversial. Nobody considers Beethoven's 3rd concerto some great masterpiece
he's obviously right that late mozart was better than early beethoven.
You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission—his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like.
this one the other hand is comically wrong, the ninth and 4 of the 6 late quartets were commissioned works.
What do people think is best for Rite of Spring? I like the Markevitch 1959 recording a lot overall for tempo and sound, but the way Bernstein gets the perfrect echo on the horn in the abduction dance for it to sound like some haunting African digerido is so good.
youtu.be
Markevitch
boulez and cleveland on sony/RCA. it's the rite of spring to end all rite of springs.
The Bayreuth Audience Reacts to Chéreau's Ring
Wholistically I like his most out of those I've heard. Markevitch also helped Stravinski revise the piece.
I'll give it a listen today.
no
So you enjoy his form then? Make up your mind already.
manipulating form in an intelligent way,
Manipulating form in an ""intelligent way"" whatever that means, is not a sole indicator of quality though. And form is only important for coherence.
or maybe everyone else is
Arrogance, delusion.
fundamental to every field of music practice
Yes, nothing outside of musicology and few related, niche fields.
somehow magically losing connection between both...
I never said that. Modulations to relative/dominant/etc. keys were implied.
still waiting for proof of this.
>so i'm waiting for your formal analysis of the work
Wait harder.
then post it.
Already did.
motivic interconnection to each is still unrelated to form
It is related to coherence and that's the main goal of form.
mutually agree on a canon of composers and seeks to understand what those composers had in common
How is this related to the fact that objective characteristics are only objective within context? There are no definitive rules, especially when it comes to "what kind of deviation in form is allowed?". You are one arrogant fuck. Perhaps your prefrontal cortex is small, or doesn't exist at all.
so exactly like yours?
Proof? They were only deleted in 1 thread, unlike you, naughty spammer.
but enough about you
MUH MUH NO U!!
late mozart was better than early beethoven.
Such a redundant statement I wonder why Brahms felt it needed saying at all.
Mozart at his artistic peak was better than beethoven at his artistic beginning
Wow thanks karl marx looking ass nigga
Anyone have a vinyl rip of the living stereo Munch Beethoven 8th Symphony recording? I can find plenty of the recording of the ninth on there, but none of the 8th on the same vinyl
He was a very stupid man.
So you enjoy his form then? Make up your mind already.
no, his form is simply bad with or without my personal taste involved.
Manipulating form in an ""intelligent way"" whatever that means, is not a sole indicator of quality though.
but it's the topic of this discussion, so nothing else is relevant.
Arrogance, delusion.
but enough about you.
Yes, nothing outside of musicology and few related, niche fields.
related, niche fields such as every form of music performance, music composition, music production and audio engineering, music education and pedagogy, etc. etc.
I never said that. Modulations to relative/dominant/etc. keys were implied.
if modulating a theme doesn't make it any less relevant to its original form, then why should key have any relevant to motivic relation? if i write two completely unrelated melodies in C major, why would one of them become any more or less relevant if it was transposed to F# major?
Wait harder.
no thanks, i prefer waiting with no effort, because i have zero expectations from you LOL
Already did.
no, you haven't posted your own formal analysis of any of tchaikovsky's music. i'm still waiting.
It is related to coherence
the goal of form is coherence, but not all musical coherence is achieved through form. we're only discussing in musical coherence achieved through form, please stay on topic.
There are no definitive rules
there are as far as adhering to the practices of the aforementioned agreed canon of composers.
especially when it comes to "what kind of deviation in form is allowed?".
correct, any kind of deviation in form is permissible as long as justified musically. not that it this is relevant to tchaikovsky, given his absolute forms were totally pedestrian
You are one arrogant fuck. Perhaps your prefrontal cortex is small, or doesn't exist at all.
LOL he's so mad
They were only deleted in 1 thread
sounds like you got banned LOL, mods dont care how many threads your posts got deleted in.
Maybe during Brahms lifetime early Beethoven was overrated? Not like today where we rate early Beethoven more realistically, as shit, and realize there's nothing worth hearing before opus 47.
retard
No one fucking talked about music if they didn't enjoy it during the 19th century. Early Beethoven was never overrated.
you're just as retarded as brahms
thovencels triggered by simple truth
couldnt even write his name properly
I bet that knockoff Beethoven 9th symphony you call "Brahms's 1st symphony" is tickling your prostate as we speak.
Not Lewis Layton's best work. He actually did another recording of the Ninth with Fritz Reiner and it sounds way better.
No clue why his Munch recording sounds much more compressed and distorted than the Reiner one. Especially as his previous recordings with Munch on Living Stereo are great (Like his Eroica). I feel like the Reiner recording is far more deserving of the Living Stereo label than Munch's.
Case in point, here are the two compared in sneedacity. Reiner on top and Munch on the bottom. The peaks are way lower on Reiner's
Worst part is that I actually really like Munch's performance, but it's ruined by the surprisingly poor engineering on his recording.
Wth why is a woman narrating all over my Vivaldi in picrel?
Its good, but doesnt sound like Bach at all.
no, his form is simply bad
We already went over that. There is no such thing as "simply bad".
but it's the topic of this discussion
One of the topics is form, and what form is FOR is very much relevant.
but enough about you.
NO U!!
I'm not dismissive of anyone's perspective, and that's what I'm arguing FOR, and you are arguing AGAINST, you are literally arrogant.
music performance
music production and audio engineering
Not directly related in any way.
then why should key have any relevant to motivic relation?
Nice english saar.
Key is ONE of the indicators of motivic relations.
no, you haven't posted your own
The original request was A formal analysis, not my own, which I already provided.
we're only discussing in musical coherence achieved through form,
Since form is merely a tool to achieve coherence, discussing coherence as a whole is perfectly on topic.
adhering to the practices of the aforementioned agreed canon
True, that is what I mean by " within context". Tchaikovsky is not a classical era composer, nor is he a German.
not that it this is relevant to tchaikovsky, given his absolute forms were totally pedestrian
Glad we finally agree: it is pedestrain - as in not appealing personally to you - not necessarily anyone else.
mods dont care
They do. You get a warning, then ban. That's how it always happens. And you blame the kraut for ban evading LOL. Everyone sees through your hypocrisy, why lie?
We already went over that. There is no such thing as "simply bad".
we didn't. bad form exists, regardless of your inability to comprehend it.
One of the topics is form
no, the topic of this discussion is form, period. sorry, you don't get to decide what i was talking about when you're the one replying to me instead of minding your own business.
>NO U!!
that would be correct, yes.
I'm not dismissive of anyone's perspective
that sounds like your problem. mind your own business.
Key is ONE of the indicators of motivic relations
again, if i have two melodies in C major and one of them is transposed to F# major, do they suddenly become motivically unrelated? you seem to be avoiding this question.
The original request was A formal analysis, not my own
sorry, but no one here is interested in you parroting the words of people more intelligent than you. either explain your argument into your own words or you have no argument, it's really that simple
Since form is merely a tool to achieve coherence
wrong, form can be fundamentally expressive just as any other aspect of music.
discussing coherence as a whole is perfectly on topic.
sorry, you don't get to decide what's on topic when you're not minding your own business.
True, that is what I mean by " within context". Tchaikovsky is not a classical era composer, nor is he a German.
does your retarded indian ass seriously not realize that tchaikovsky is a canonical composer by every standard?
Glad we finally agree: it is pedestrain - as in not appealing personally to you
it's pedestrian as in it is totally ordinary and absolutely anonymous. a form chart of any given tchaikovsky work would look near identical to a hundred other nameless forgotten composers.
You get a warning, then ban.
proof?
And you blame the kraut for ban evading LOL
because he was banned for breaking rule 1 and had to change his tripcode as a result, little more explanation is needed.
mono
I can find that on youtube, but where is the stereo recording? They couldn't just have put a mono recording on a stereo record
Whoa that is bad
They couldn't just have put a mono recording on a stereo record
record labels did this all the time when reissuing mono recordings.
One of the greatest masterpieces in the history of music.
Bernstein
youtube.com
What the absolute fuck is this audio quality for a 1974 recording? Why is Marschner so completely cursed to have terrible recordings of his works? He is acknowledged as the bridge between Weber and Wagner is German opera, yet no effort is made.
Missa Solemnis or Mass In B Minor? Which is the better composition?
i dont like stravinsky
I listed to the Boulez earlier this morning. I don't like it as much as the Bernstein or Markevich. It's a bit too soft in places, and the sound staging quiets several parts that should be very loud IMO.
we didn't. bad form exists
Yes we did, you don't like it, doesn't mean it's bad.
no, the topic of this discussion is form
Not really.
that would be correct
that sounds like your problem.
I accept your concession.
again, if i have two melodies in C major and one of them is transposed to F# major
Depends entirely on the context, the underlying harmony, rhythm, form, etc.
sorry, but no one here is interested in you parroting the words of people more intelligent than you.
You asked, and you recieved. And no musicologist, music theorist or anyone related is intelligent, the only exceptions are the great composers. The intelligent people are all in STEM (especially math, physics).
form can be fundamentally expressive
You admitted yourself: "the goal of form is coherence"
sorry, you don't get to decide what's on topic
I already did.
canonical composer
As in western canon? High culture rubbish.
a form chart of any given tchaikovsky work would look near identical to a hundred other nameless forgotten composers.
And his melody resonates more with the mind than any other composer's melody, which is exactly why he is cherished, listened to and played to this day.
proof?
Your posts disappeared twice. That's simply how it works.
had to change his tripcode
Already debunked pretty sure, but I'm not going to whiteknight him, you're being a hypocrite to everyone's eyes.
Rec for a good recording of Schubert String Quartet No. 14 (Death and the Maiden)?
Capet
Heutling
More like Peemann
Yes we did, you don't like it, doesn't mean it's bad.
no we didn't. bad form exists independent of my personal preferences.
Not really.
yes really. go talk to someone else if you want to discuss something else, or better yet, mind your own business.
I accept your concession.
indian illiteracy at its finest.
Depends entirely on the context, the underlying harmony, rhythm, form, etc.
i already gave you the context: totally unrelated. also, form doesn't apply to melodies LOL
You asked, and you recieved.
i asked for your analysis of tchaikovsky's form and i haven't received anything. still waiting btw.
And no musicologist, music theorist or anyone related is intelligent
and yet you're even dumber than mere music theorists, how embarrassing.
You admitted yourself: "the goal of form is coherence"
the goal of harmony is consonance too, but that hasn't stopped pages upon pages from being written on the proper handling of dissonance.
I already did.
afraid not. go talk to someone else or mind your own business.
As in western canon? High culture rubbish.
you're in a thread dedicated to discussing composers central to the western canon, maybe try instead if that's above you.
And his melody resonates more with the mind than any other composer's melody
sorry, but facts don't care about your feelings, or the feelings of any other indian citizen.
Your posts disappeared twice.
proof that either of them received bans or warnings?
Already debunked pretty sure, but I'm not going to whiteknight him
lol, indians are so spineless.
takacs is good
They're both among the top, depends on your own preference at that point. Why choose?
the missa solemnis is the better setting of the text, huge portions of the mass in B minor are reused from totally unrelated pieces and even within the piece itself.
Brahms' German Requiem > Mahler's 8th > Mass in B minor > Missa Solemnis
but they're the top 4 so up2u
just realized my digital piano doubles as a speaker
Well this is comfy.
why conflate 2 totally different genres of music with settings of the mass?
Busch
Missa Solemnis
test
Kolisch