/wagner/ aka /classical/

Question

/wagner/ aka /classical/

youtu.be/2Ojhx-cFsJw?si=8KnX1oW-l2a0maL7

And there he was, the great lord, the mighty pilgrim, who went to the bavarian alps as requested by the king of bavaria "King Ludwig II", they both composed together and their draft left the world in awe. For Wagner music was not just tool to make money, music was something that channeled your inner spirit, your ego, your "persona", you soul. For it was Wagner who delved into the lands of fantasy and created castles in it. The Construction of Neuschwanstein was based on Lohengrin and Influenced Tchaikovsky who later created Swan Lake. It is Wagner alone that influenced post-war and pre-war composers, everyone felt like they have a little bit Wagner in them. "His rivals were many, his equals were none".

This thread is for the discussion of music in the Wagnerian classical tradition, as well as wagnerian instrument-playing.

How do I get into Wagner?

This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate wagnerian music:
pastebin.com/NBEp2VFh

Previously on /wagner/:

Nietzsche hated Wagner’s obsession with redemption. The idea that ‘love’ leads to the union that leads to life, that in turn ends in death, meant that love and death were two sides of the same coin. As a result, death must follow love, and only through death could love be redeemed. Such nihilistic thinking could only come at a time when the world was puritanically obsessed. A social climate that hid piano legs as being too titillating inevitably resulted in sexually healthy females becoming ‘hysterics’. It’s all the more remarkable that Wagner could in 1865 get away with painting sexual love in the intoxicating sounds of Tristan’s second act duet; but it is in the question of Musical intoxication that Nietzsche and Eduard Hanslick agree. Wagner’s genius was too powerful. His music ‘bullied the senses’, and overwhelmed the listener. Hanslick felt the sensuality of Tristan to be pornographic. In such an environment, it must come as no surprise that cultural ‘Decadence’ should take hold. As Stephen Downs writes in Music and Decadence in European Modernism: ‘Decadence is usually associated with themes of despair, deviance, decay, degeneration and death. Its artistic styles are characteristically described as excessive, epicurean, artificial, darkly comic or esoteric, and its structural strategies commonly understood as based upon processes of fragmentation, dissolution, deformation and ornamentation.’ All of these fit Nietzsche’s description of Wagner’s music and would have prepared the ground for such complicated fin de siècle ‘decadents’ as the nihilistic Jewish homosexual, Otto Weininger with his hatred of women and Jews.

another fucking Wagner thread

see you next thread

"the difference between Falstaff, which is the absolute masterpiece, and Die Meistersinger, which is an outstanding Wagnerian opera. Just think for a moment how many musical means – beautiful ones, certainly – Wagner must make use of to describe the Nuremberg night. And look how Verdi gets a similarly startling effect at a similar moment with three notes." - Toscanini

Toscanini also said that Wagner made him give up on beign a composer because Wagner's music made him realize he didn't have "it"

If you want new folks to get into Baroque music show them Bieber and Buxtehude instead of Bach.

Igor Stravinsky wrote "I say that in the aria 'La donna è mobile', for example, which the elite thinks only brilliant and superficial, there is more substance and feeling than in the whole of Wagner's Ring cycle."

if people take to biber over bach they've got lousy taste. true of buxtehude too, desu

new folks!!!

I am in a world, where I am taking a stroll in a beautiful park built by the divine, suddenly my legs feel tired and request to stop. Cordially I went on ahead to sit under the shade of a chestnut tree. My fatigue washes away from me as I slip into my imaginative daydreaming, I can hear the melancholic chirping of the sparrows and the water flowing from the creeks, feel the gust of a chilly wind approaching my face, smell the rejuvenating fragrance of the good earth. But then I realize I was just listening to the start of Lohengrin. I a poor soul, venerate the gods for creating such beauty and allowing an inferior soul like me to experience it!

youtube.com/watch?v=BG53S27HI5k

no one likes justin bieber you fag

kind of in one ear out the other, but without being trite. sometimes that is just the right tone.

youtu.be/Q5pQ7ML9s4A?list=LL

I bet you the average person would respond better to those than Bach in general

maybe, but the average person has lousy taste

I can never get into verdi's shakespeare operas because they just make me want to go and read shakespeare instead.

wagner sucks cocks in hell

Afraid not. He's sending all non-whites to hell personally.

wagner is overrated and was a jew

racism and sexism are born of ignorance and self-loathing. antisemitism is born of misinformation.

based

That's brilliant. I've loved this cope since I first learned the fundamentals of liberalism at age 13.

Personally anon, I've never been sexist- I love women or at least I have no especial dislike towards them . I think there's a place for both anti-semtism and racism as long as it's informed and reasonable but it can often descend into ignorance and often does here on Anon Babble

Sorry buddy just because they managed to popularize the word 'anti-semitism' doesn't mean you get to act like anti-semitism isn't in the same category as 'racism'. "Sexism" depends on what you mean by it. If you mean plain chauvinism or attitudes that don't agree with gender egalitarianism that's simply way too commonplace for an intellectually honest person to dare to even attempt to portray as pathological in any way. If you mean real misogyny that's mental illness. Racism, again too normal to be pathological. Prejudice towards others and hating half of your own kind are simply not comparable.

They literally think having a nuclear family and caring about your town and country is a mental illness. It's called projection, and that's what leftism is based off of.

Prejudice towards others and hating half of your own kind are simply not comparable

prejudice towards others leads to hatred of MORE than half your own kind though.

They literally think having a nuclear family and caring about your town and country is a mental illness

not one person thinks this, no.

It's true unfortunately. As evidenced by non-whites being allowed to exist.

there is nothing wrong with non-whites being allowed to exist

True
False, love and racism are both oxytocin mode

I disagree. In fact, I think there should be a systematic extermination of every non-white and grind their bodies into mush and send it into the sun so we never have to hear about their disgusting existence ever again. So future humans don't have to know these pieces of filth ever existed. Just being honest.

the wagner thread has descended to ooga booga levels in record time, go figure

Post your top 5 composers.

It's true sadly

Mozart
Beethoven
Handel
Schubert
Liszt

What's your favourite Beethoven piece?

His 30th piano Sonata.

Missa Solemnis. I dedicate this post to the memory of the sisterposter.

schmaltz

We all thought he exploded too young

Not a bad choice. Personallyl I'd have gone for his 9th Symphony. I've never heard his late string quartets

I've never heard his late string quartets

the absolute state of /classical/

/wagner/. /classical/ is doing fine

That's just me, not classical in general

You have read the most important treatise in the domain of contemporary music criticism, right anon?

Good music

Bach (Set the quality standard tier)

Mozart

Gesualdo

Haydn

Lotti

Zelenka

Byrd

Ramsey

Palestrina

von Biber

Buxtehude

Martin Kraus

Monteverdi

Sorabji

Schoenberg

Rameau

Berg

Stockhausen

Handel

CPE Bach

Bad music

Beethoven (Ruined music tier)

Rossini

Brahms

Wagner

Mahler

Tchaikovsky

Shostakovich

Chopin

Debussy

Satie

Saint-Saens

Holst

Williams

von Weber

Zimmer

Gounod

Cage

Glass

Verdi

Schumann

Schubert

Non-music:

rest of Anon Babble

Active satanic work:

fucking Jazz

Save String Quartets for when you reach 50 above. It is the GRANDPAs that need that HECKIN intellectuality therapeutic effect from music.

I really regret gaslighting this general into liking Schoenberg

No it' slike a sonata or symphony but for 4 string instruments, trust me
Think about what you've done

*Ahem* Is this thing on? Good

Gentlemen, I have a brief manifesto I would like to get off my chest

Bach is perfect
Mozart is underrated
Schoenberg is underrated (and Trinity worthy)
Zelenka is underrated
Reicha: Underrated
Czechoslovakia is underrated
Schumann:Underrated
Schubert:Underrated
Gesualdo: Underrated
Langaard: Underrated

Faure is based
Ravel is based
Messiaen is based
but fuck The French!
Sibelius: The program sucks ass but the composer is based
Rautavaara is based
Finland is our final hope
Bruckner: Likes cunny

Haydn, Brahms, Dvorak Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Bartok: All based and correctly rated

Beethoven is overrated, though admittedly a tremendous composer
Wagner is overrated and his piano music sucks
Liszt is overrated
Tchaikovsky is overrated and a flaming faggot

Fuck Mahler and his wooden box
Fuck Strauss (Just pick one)
Fuck Chopin
Fuck Saint Saens
Fuck Debussy
Fuck Satie
Once again I say: Fuck the French!
Fuck Boulez
Fuck Berio
Fuck Schnittke
Fuck Babbitt
Cage is a worthless AIDS riddled faggot
FUCK POSTMODERNISM
Fuck Gershwin
Fuck Kapustin- its just Jazz that's written down
Fuck Copland
Fuck Glass
Fuck Adams
Fuck Poly
Fuck American ((((composers))))
Handel sucks
Holst is an unmusical buffoon
Vaughan Williams sucks
Fuck Jacob Cholera (in the boipussy)
Fuck England!
Africa is a musically-- and in every other respect-- worthless continent.
Yuja Wang and Alma Deutscher should be brought into sexual bondage.

And last but not least

FUCK JANNIES! FUCK DOTARD BLIPF AND FUCK BLACK "PEEPO"!

*throws mic violently to the ground* *dabs ceremoniously*

bait has to be believable

are you sdf

Dogma should be defensible
Ritual should be repeatable
Liturgy should be legible
Belief should be beautiful
What fulfils these conditions in the decadent modern world in which "God is Dead"? Answer: the holy poetry of Richard Wagner and his "Sacred Festival Stage Play" which transforms and supersedes religion.
youtu.be/yF0pwSC7qWg?list=PL_Cf5Xxn5OZY1gE9zsWHAjXz6MVz9IZYS

I was with you until you said fuck Chopin.

This is the best replybot we have in here

no but I was the one who continued his agenda into the last decade and made some very embarrassing and stupid copypastas that are occasionally posted still.

oh, carry on then

Has anyone gone to music school (composition or performance)? How was it? Worth the money?

Very bad anon, very bad. Having said that sometimes he works-Glen Gould playing OP 25 it just works sometimes. It's like he's playing music written in another language, he's treating it like it makes sense and isn't just arbritary and finding the art in it. And his earlier stuff like Verhlakt Nacht is good

Why? He wrote one of the best string quartets ever.

He did indeed write one of the string quartets of all time

good, Schoenberg is great.

Jew lover

Nope. Kikeberg is what a 5 year old mashing a piano and freaking out on the Violin sounds like. No one should even know his name.

Schoenberg raped your head.

youtu.be/L85XTLr5eBE

But I wept as I listened to the Fourth Quartet. Now I know for certain that you are the last Classical composer: your cradle was Beethoven's Grosse Fuge, where there is none of that Russian, French, or English folklore, and the barbarism of presenting a symbol instead of a direct experience. . . . Bach, Beethoven, and Schoenberg are the last composers capable of erecting a musical structure that can — must — be regarded as an organic world. . . . All music but theirs is either galvanized, artificially stimulated folkweave . . . or purely abstract geometry with queer sounds and odd effects touting for the listener's custom.

OSKAR KOKOSCHKA TO ARNOLD SCHOENBERG 19 AUGUST 1949

Schoenberg is underrated (and Trinity worthy)

Beethoven is overrated, though admittedly a tremendous composer

Liszt is overrated

Tchaikovsky is overrated and a flaming faggot

Fuck Chopin

Fuck Debussy

Fuck Satie

Once again I say: Fuck the French!

Cage is a worthless AIDS riddled faggot

FUCK POSTMODERNISM

Fuck Gershwin

Fuck Glass

Fuck Adams

Fuck American ((((composers))))

Holst is an unmusical buffoon

Fuck England!

WE WUZ MOZART N SHIET
youtu.be/SmDlGYj0y1Y?si=o_yCeBmY4fq579aO

youtu.be/OGtE_JA-QvQ

this is gods Music........Schönberg was not an Atheist........no great Music has ever been composed by an Atheist.........Facts and love from vienna Austria.......where it all began,.Haydn,. Mozart,. Beethoven,.schubert,.etc....

no great Music has ever been composed by an Atheist

*impedes your path*

Posting Meyerbeer in Wagner thread

youtube.com/watch?v=wyIVxerV8AA

Les Troyens is far more soulful and heroic than anything Vagner ever wrote.

In Paris in 1858, Wagner listened to Berlioz reading the libretto of Les Troyens with a mounting anxiety, so that "I really found myself wishing that I might never see him again since, in the end, to be so utterly unable to help a friend can only become unbearably painful. The text is clearly the pinnacle of his misfortune, which nothing now can surpass."

Six years earlier, in a letter to Liszt (Wagner considered Berlioz, Liszt and himself the three most important composers of the day), he had written: "If ever a musician needed a poet, it is Berlioz, and it is his misfortune that he always adapts his poet to his own musical whim, arranging now Shakespeare, now Goethe, to suit his own purpose. He needs a poet to fill him through and through, a poet who is driven by ecstasy to violate him, and who is to him what man is to woman." But the poet Wagner had in mind for this job of violating Berlioz was Wagner himself. He thought that Berlioz ought to set the story of Wieland the Smith, a German legend of which he, Wagner, had written the prose outline.

Beethoven is half good half bad

Honestly I can't do 4 hours of Berlioz. Give me some highlights.

Wagner, Joyce, Proust — what else are we pretending to like?

glenn gould

*pukes*

Bach is perfect

Handel sucks

???

B E Y O N D fucking based
you should be given mod powers to ban anyone you want actually

When did anyone here pretend to like Proust or Joyce?

Beethoven is all good!

you LIKE Cage?

I hate reading anything the Germans wrote in the 19th and 20th century. I feel myself dying when I get through it. Hitler, and Nietzsche sound the exact same.

I like this poem:
youtube.com/watch?v=aZn7HWG0K-Y&ab_channel=MidnightRadio(UndertheLighthouse)

He has his place as an artist

yes, as a bad one who failed and resorted to performative stunts like all creatively devoid charlatans.

No one pretends to like any of those things, though.

Bump

I have not gone but you can basically learn everything online now as far as composition goes. I even found a teacher.

this thread is fucking irredeemable

welcome to Anon Babble

Let people enjoy things bigot!

This is nowhere close to the worst it's been.

Bro this is the redeemed thread.

that's like saying at least we aren't wiping ourselves with sandpaper

it's like a retardathon

I'm going to become the most racist person in human history if you keep this up.

/classical/ without sisterposting is somehow worse

i'm not posting any music in this thread. no music is bad enough to deserve that.

Wagner. God. Power. Light.

Wagner.

youtube.com/watch?v=J8UzmAgGdlU